Trezor and ADA/Cardano CIP8/30 support, midnight drop airdrop

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41

Hi MHicks512,
Trezor ignored my recommendation a couple weeks back to post updates on a cadence (see a couple posts above) that would have alleviate a ton of this.
That said, I do not see any reason why a BIP-32 wallet can not perform this HW wallet swap procedure to a Ledger and claim the Midnight tokens. As others have pointed out, a Shamir based wallet is at the mercy of Trezor more than likely unless others find another HW wallet that supports the shamir+Midnight signature.
On the Midnight Discord- post the link here if able
Thanks

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42

That’s very frustrating. I heard someone on the Midnight Discord say this wont work because the “derivation path” is different for Ledger and Trezor(Claiming with ADA), what do you know about this? I have no idea what any of this means. I’m a mere mortal in this realm :slight_smile:
This forum wont let me post links, but if you just search “derivation path” in the Midnight Discord there’s many people that mention it.

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43

Maybe and that is news to me. By default it should work, given Yorio is a middle man

In looking at Discord I see this “The derivation path schemes used by Trezor are well known, and in most cases they are standard, i.e. the same used by most other wallets.”

It appears its standard except when you have multiple accounts on same wallet and then you can try Account 1,2 if account 0 does not give the same origin address

Here is a gleaned AI procedure.

Migrating Trezor → Ledger without breaking continuity

  1. Secrets must match
  • Restore the same seed words on Ledger.
  • If you ever used a passphrase on Trezor, enable the same passphrase on Ledger. (Different passphrase = different wallet.)
  1. Use the same Cardano standard
  • Connect via Yoroi/Eternl/Lace as Shelley (CIP-1852) hardware wallet.
  1. Pick the correct account
  • Start with Account 0’. If addresses don’t match, try Account 1’ (or 2’).
  1. Verify on device
  • In Yoroi: Receive → Verify on device. The address on the Ledger screen must match your known origin addr1… exactly before you sign anything.
  1. Only then sign/claim
  • Once the device shows the exact origin address, you’re on the same path and can sign the Midnight message or transact.
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44

This is great, thank you!

45

The problem you may very well run into is that, while the derivation path is right, the derivation method differs. Trezor supports three variants for compatibility: Ledger way, Legacy Trezor way, and the official Icarus way. The latter is the default.

This means you can import your seed into Daedalus or Yoroi, if you choose to use a hot wallet. But unless Ledger was updated to use Icarus derivation (which is problematic for people who got stuck on the Ledger derivation), the keys on the same derivation path will not match.

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47

Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. Well hopefully we hear something from Trezor about a fix. I know @NickW said he would have an update next week on the progress.

48

Thanks matejcik- I did not know that and looked it up and appears Icarus has been the default for Trezor. It appears the situation is worse than I thought and if you have a 12 word seed phrase on Trezor- Yoroi is not an option (15 or 24 word is supported)

Lace appears to support 12 word seed phrase as does Daedalus.

Just make sure ALL your crypto is off the Trezor to be used for this before putting seed phrases into any hot wallet. Hopefully once thawed/redeemed- we can get the MIDNIGHT back on HW wallets

Give I may have to expose my seed phrase if there is no fix, I will delay my decision

Again I ask WTF is Trezor support?

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49

I did some digging- I do not know if this is true but glued sources and some AI.
Can we get a response from Trezor? LOL

Byron (legacy)

  • Address prefixes: Ae2… or Ddz…
  • Standard: BIP-44 (a.k.a. “Icarus / Legacy Trezor / Legacy Ledger” variants)
  • Derivation examples: m/44'/1815'/ACCOUNT'/CHANGE/INDEX
  • Gotcha: There were multiple Byron derivation methods for compatibility. Same path string can yield different keys if the method differs across wallets (the Reddit warning you saw refers to this).
  • Signing/claims: Many modern flows don’t support Byron message-signing; they typically expect Shelley.

Shelley (current standard)

  • Address prefix: addr1…
  • Standard: CIP-1852
  • Derivation: m/1852'/1815'/ACCOUNT'/ROLE/INDEX
    • ACCOUNT' usually 0'
    • ROLE 0 = external (receive), 1 = internal (change)
  • Good news: Ledger and Trezor both implement the same Shelley method. If seed + (passphrase) + account are the same, the keys/addresses match across brands.

there is no vendor-specific path difference for Shelley between Trezor and Ledger. Both follow CIP-1852 for Cardano hardware wallets. So for a Midnight claim tied to a Shelley (addr1…) origin, you’ll reproduce the same address and keys on Ledger if and only if all of these match:

  • Same seed phrase
  • Same passphrase state (the “25th word”) — on or off, and identical if used
  • Same derivation scheme: Shelley / CIP-1852
  • Same account index: usually Account 0′ (but use 1′/2′ if that’s what you originally used)

If any of those differ (e.g., wrong account, passphrase mismatch, or switching to a Byron/Icarus path), you’ll derive different keys and the portal will reject the signature.

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50

Nice detective work there delaneybob :+1: but I am hoping we won’t have to try restoring to an alternative wallet just yet.

Looks like this CIP8/30 support code has finally been merged into the upcoming Trezor FW [Release 25.09].

[github com trezor trezor-firmware milestone 57]

Let’s hope that it gets released within the next few weeks as it will be cutting it close as is.

An update from NickW confirming that this is the case would really help us right now.

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51

you’re asking the wrong question.

ask the AI about what is Icarus derivation

52

ah, sorry. didn’t notice the AI mentions it.

Unfortunately, it’s making things up. I know for a fact that Shelley is exactly as affected by the derivation method as Byron.

Shelley is a completely new address format, with different data encoded and on different paths, but the derivation method didn’t change.

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53

Hello Matejcik,

Are you saying that duplicating a Trezor wallet (24 Seed w/o Shamir) will not work or may not work?

54

I can tell you all about what Trezor implements. I am not up-to-date on what Ledger supports, you’d have to go to ask Ledger about that.

  • As of roughly three years ago, the situation was that Ledger and Trezor Cardano wallets were incompatible.
  • Trezor implemented a compatibility method to load Ledger Cardano wallets. This is however not the default – if you create your Cardano wallet on Trezor, it’s not compatible.
  • To migrate from Trezor to Ledger, Ledger would have had to implement a similar compatibility feature on their side. I don’t know whether they did that. By default, I’d expect not.
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55

To chime in again, I’d first like to thank everyone for continuing to follow this closely. I know many of you have been watching the related pull request on GitHub and saw that the firmware changes for Cardano message signing have been merged in our firmware repo.

We will now verify it in a full Trezor firmware release candidate, so we can verify that the proposed change is stable for release, and can be used safely and reliably to claim your coins. That’s a positive step forward, and it’s one of the benefits of our open-source approach — you can see progress as it happens.

From here, there are still some software adjustments needed to ensure Trezor’s tech stack will work end-to-end with Midnight claims.

Our goal remains to have message signing available within the 60-day claim window ending October 4. If that proves not possible, we’ll be clear about the situation and share what alternatives exist.

I know the uncertainty is difficult, and I’ll keep this thread updated as soon as there’s more concrete news.

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56

Thanks for the update NickW. Looking forward to a solution.

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57

Thanks matecik- I asked AI again with your response and it corrected itself. Appears you are a developer and appreciate you stepping in for Trezor support. Based on LinkedIn looks like everyone is out of Prague and 3 dedicated customer support people

All here is a comparison on support/people in support based on LinkedIn

  • Ledger- 758 people on LinkedIn, 26 dedicated support people (includes mgmt)
  • Trezor- 118 people on LinkedIn, 3 dedicated support people, 1 manager

If folks want to reach out to Head of Tech Support as this lingers into September- that would likely be [redacted] (no guarantees on the email but the name is correct)

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58

Okay, Thank you Matejcik.

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59

Thank you for the update Nick.

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60

Our full moderation team is listed here.

@matejcik is a developer at Trezor, and he posts regularly on this forum, especially in response to questions related to Trezor firmware and cryptography.

I would kindly ask that anyone with questions or concerns use our official support channels, including this forum or opening a support ticket via our chatbot Hal. Our support teams, including myself, are best equipped to assist and escalate matters where needed.

Individual employees of Trezor and SatoshiLabs are not responsible for responding to emails or personal direct messages in a timely manner or to provide assistance when it’s not requested through official channels.

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61

Looks like KeyStone may be a fall back- MIDNIGHT updated yesterday (Keystone is listed for many Cryptos
Note: Keystone has confirmed successful claim paths with their wallet users, but the Midnight TGE has not verified.

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