I’ve searched the forum for this issue and I found a few threads, but none gave me a satisfying answer. So I’m opening this pandoras box again.
First things first, yes, I know the difference between a Seed Phrase and a Pass Phrase.
As much as I like the 13/25 word option, I’m kind of paranoid if this will maneuverer me in a uncomfortable situation once I have to recover my wallet(s) again without any Trezor!
So, here are the bounty conditions:
- Created a standard wallet with 12 words.
- Created more than one hidden wallet.
- I have, say a dozens of coins BTC, ETH, XRP, ADA, SOL, BNB, MATIC … Not only one Network is needed.
- Trezor is gone, out of business. This door is closed.
Now I have to recover all my wallets without a Trezor.
I’m familiar with Ledger’s approach, unfortunately there is only one hidden wallet possible.
I searched for options within MetaMask and TrustWallet, but there are no Pass Phrases available. Rabby does, and offers as well different entropies (12-24 words) for the Seed Phrase.
But all of the above-mentioned alternatives do not 100% cover what Trezor is offering (Pass Phrase(s) and Networks).
So, here is the question:
Did anyone try to clone a Trezor device with multiple PP with a Software wallet?
I love the paranoia level and the fact that you follow the golden rule: don’t trust, verify!
However in this case you don’t have to worry for various reasons:
A) Trezor is not going anywhere.
B) Even if it would go bust, do not forget that Trezor is open-source (o-s).
The o-s of Trezor’s hardware and software is a significant advantage in this scenario. The o-s design ensures that the codebase is publicly available and can be audited and implemented by the wider community.
This means that even if Trezor were to cease operations, developers and the community would still have access to the code and be able to continue supporting and enhancing the product.
C) There are hot and cold wallets on the market that support BIP39 passphrase as well.
D) You can use any suitable mnemonic code converter and import respective private key to the third party wallet interface in order to recover your account/addresses.
To add to zapla’s answer: support for passphrases is baked into BIP39, the open source specification for generating and handling mnemonic phrase wallets. Most wallets use BIP39 and support the passphrase feature.
Ledger’s approach—as well as many other hardware wallets on the market—is to allow the user to save one passphrase on the device and protect it with a PIN code (you would then get one PIN for your standard account and one PIN for the hidden wallet). However, these wallets also allow you to make “temporary” passphrases that are not saved on the device, similar to Trezor. You would be able to load your seed phrase and use as many passphrases as you like, even if the usability would be different. Please note that Trezor chooses this approach to passphrases to increase security: an attacker cannot extract your passphrase from your device if it is not saved there in the first place
I understand your concerns with passphrases, and please note that the biggest risk to your funds is to forget the passphrase. This is more common than you think, even with more advanced users. I recommend that you write down your passphrases—separately from your seed phrase, of course—and that you practice getting back into your hidden accounts often, just to refresh your memory and make sure you can still access them.
Many thanks for your answers.
I will continue with my academic research.
What I can confirm is, that ledger does offer that Pass Phase option (disabling PIN). So, there is an alternative HW wallet. But for the SW wallet’s I think Rabby is the only one that offers a Pass Phase option.
According to entropy it looks like the 12 word Mnmeonic_String is the one that is supported by all wallets, so the 12 words option will be the preferred one.
I was able to generate all the needed information (Entropy/Mnemonic_Str → Seed → XprivKeys/XpubKeys), according the BIP39.
Then I took the two governing coins (BTC, ETH):
For ETH I was able to get the same address like Trezor (success!), but for BTC I could not get the same address. I was using that derivation path (44’/60’/0’/0/0’’).
So, I thing the BIP 39 calculation path is correct, but I’m missing something with the BTC address determination (BIP 32&44).
I would appreciate, if time allows, to get some help on the BTC address issue, just for my understanding how addresses are calculated.
Cointype ID 60 is only for ETH, for bitcoin it is 0: https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0044.md
Also, make sure that you are using/comparing correct account type (
All the information regarding dervation path used can be found here: