Hi, I have a Trezor 1 and want to use only non-KYC bitcoin. I don’t have any other coins connected to this key.
In the past I had all sorts of KYC on this key but have now removed them all and have labelled the account 'do not use" to prevent mistakes. I now have a second account on this key (sharing the same seed) for my non-KYC coin.
My question is…Is this enough or can my non-kyc BTC be traced because it is on the same key that has previously held KYC BTC, even though this is a brand new account on that same key?
I’m curious to where you buy Bitcoin without going through a Know Your Customer (KYC) process? I’ve been looking for such an exchange myself but haven’t found any.
Note that accounts in your Trezor device are not connected to KYC in any way, it’s the online exchanges that often will want to know who you are and it’s through them authorities/people may track funds you bought/sold to you. You can reduce chances of your transactions being traced back to you by using a new Receive address in your Trezor wallet every time you buy new funds.
About account security – so long as you follow Best practices, you get a long way to be secure. But you can also store your funds in Hidden wallet(s) with Passphrase, for instance, split your Recovery seed by using Shamir backup, encrypt your PIN with a SD card (if you have Trezor model T), and other things to increase security.
Thanks for the question this is going to be a nice thread I hope.
In this case because your are using the same seed, if I am not mistaken there will be sharing the same xpub/zpub (public key) and because the exchange has this type of info through the address you use, unless you use coinjoin, your KYC will always be linked.
FATF rules dictate that exchanges keep KYC and exchange this info between them. something like that.
One way you can mitigate this is to withdrawl to a lightning wallet, as it can be more private,note NOT TOTALLY private.
To ensure no links I would generate a new seed just for non kyc bitcoin.
For non KYC bitcoin you can use exchanges such as Robosats, Peach, Stealthex, Shapeshift or even Bisq. Please do your own research.
can also mine or get paid in bitcoin this way no kyc needed, does not need to engage with an exchange
This is a big theme so keep the thread going.
chain analysis companies have the ability through the amount of info to discover which wallet you are using through address types. and all other info they are able to analise.
@blackrat do you have any other means of getting non kyc btc of your own
ps: this was not financial advice, please do your own research.
Hi Petosiris,
Thanks for the reply. I get my Non-KYC from Bisq. It’s a really fantastic way to stay clear of the usual exchanges but does have a bit of a learning curve
Another one is Robosats which uses the lightning network.
Hi RimaS,
Interesting reply and I wasn’t sure, so I checked. The public keys are different on the 2 accounts sharing the same seed, so my guess is, all is well?
My workflow is Bisq to obtain non-kyc BTC, then into Sparrow wallet where it is mixed direct to my Trezor. For spending the opposite is true.
The Sparrow wallet and Trezor always use new receive addresses and i run everything through TOR and soon my own node.
My only real reason for not wanting to start from scratch with the Trezor is because the seed is kept on a cryptosteel and i am too lazy to want to change it. All those little strips of metal are a real pain.
Anyway, thanks for the clue, I think it has led to an answer unless you or anyone knows differently?
Cheers,
BR
for non KYC you can also use ATMs for instance, we have a nice tool Coinmap.org that lists ATMs all over the world.
Also, to answer your original question, the easiest is to create a hidden wallet with a passphrase. Or use coinjoin and then transfer to a new seed.
Generally you don’t have to be worried about Trezor address being linked to your exchange account, as long as you have your coins no one can steal your coins from that address anyway and you can always deny it belongs to you.
Hi forgi,
Thanks for the reply. It’s all about privacy for me, i don’t see why anyone should be able to trace what i spend my money on. Thanks for the help.
I’ve been thinking about non KYC and ATMs lately too.
Can someone legally purchase an SMS phone & number without the phone number KYC linking back to the ATM user? Maybe a Tracphone from Walmart with minutes? I’ve never bought a non KYC phone or account, so do they KYC for the “burner” phone too?
Again to reiterate, this is “hypothetical” and I’m not suggesting anyone promote breaking any laws etc., I’m presuming we are all speaking “hypothetically” and none of us our intending or suggesting we would knowingly “break any laws”.
Thanks. I’ve used an ATM in California USA and they do require an SMS at the ones I’ve used.
Just curious whether this a legal non kyc, SMS throw away phone solution someone could easily get for ATM use in this situation. Or maybe there are certain ATM here that I’m unaware of that don’t require phone SMS?
Yes, I’m a newbie to all of this. I have recently made 2 small Bitcoin purchases. $100 ea. One through Bitcoin com MoonPay. The other was on Coinbase. The first purchase on Bitcoin com/Moonpay cost me about 15% ($100 purchase). Coinbase was only about 3%. However, ever since my first purchase on Coinbase they have been unable to verify my identity!! Go figure. I want to buy more Bitcoin but looking for a better place to do that. Any suggestions? I will want to use ACH payment. I have been successful in transferring my coins to my Trezor wallet. Worked great.
Not being negative whatsoever, just thought I’d chime in, but why would people want non-KYC crypto? If it’s about evading taxes then it’s just not worth the prison time! I personally am KYC’d on all my purchases as far as I know, and I just pay my yearly tax owed etc. Thing is, we’re in a world with zero privacy anyway, and privacy coins will likely be banned in most first-world nations soon enough. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge privacy advocate in all things in life… I believe in the right to privacy for sure. I just never understood why the privacy issue became such a hot potato in crypto… for me, crypto is an investment like stocks, bonds etc and all these would be done through a KYC broker and you just pay your tax as per the law. Not sure what the problem is? Not trying to offend anyone just curious.
PS: privacy is a massive important issue for all of us in all parts of life and you must always correct any sheep you meet along the way who doesn’t believe in the right to privacy - these people make me angry for sure. My comment was related specifically to crypto, because if it is just an investment like traditional investments then it has to all be logged, accounted and tax paid for anyway.
I have a friend who wants to keeps their crypto “off the books”, so to speak, but then they dream of retiring on the money one day. Errrr… ain’t gonna happen. They won’t even be able to buy a car soon (from crypto profits) without the tax man knocking on the door, let alone a house, let alone retirement!! A new fridge or sofa? Yeah, maybe. LOL. But CBDC’s are coming fast, and when they hit, you won’t be able to buy a chocolate bar without the gov/tax man knowing.
Hm … seems a few people haven’t discovered how to edit a message yet.
I just want to say that crypto is not ordinary money, even if it may have monetary FIAT value in the “real” world. To me it’s irrelevant how much fiat money I can get for my crypto. I’ve never used/sold any crypto ever, I just HODL and wait for more businesses to accept crypto as payment. One day it’ll be millions of places I may use crypto to pay for consumer goods like PC’s, food, etc.
As for non-KYC trading, I welcome it. People have a choice to do things different. It doesn’t mean they want to hide taxable funds if they use non-KYC options. In my country, for instance, the tax authorities want to know how much you own at the time you file your tax returns, not when and how you got it. It’s the same as with fiat in your bank and stocks you may own (with some differences).
Some people live in countries with totalitarian regimes. Crypto coins may be illegal and you risk losing everything, even if you inform the autorities how much you own on your tax returns. Perhaps that’s exactly how you lose them, since the authorities then will be able to seise your funds and throw you in jail. These people don’t have much choice than to use non-KYC routes – if they want to trade crypto at all.
In reality, it is always about money for people, at least 90% of those in this space. Nobody is here to lose money or breakeven. Of course it’s an investment. You can barely buy anything with BTC, certainly not directly without other steps involved, and then the taxes still come into play when you do. It’s not a currency, it’s an investment. There is no way CBDC’s will move over for crypto, but that’s ok, because why would you spend it anyway when we just wait for the price to go over-bought in cycles and then cash out? The BTC whitepaper doesn’t mean anything anymore as BTC was not supposed to be what it became… free markets chose.
